thoughts about governance
gridcoin·@erkan·
0.000 HBDthoughts about governance
<html> <p><img src="https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://steemitimages.com/0x0/https://i.imgur.com/IPq8wdr.jpg" width="700" height="517"/></p> <p><br></p> <p>from the chat in IRC (<a href="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net:6667/#gridcoin-social">#gridcoin-social</a>) today, between me and @m3rcos1ty:</p> <ul> <li>Erkan: governance: based on past stuff and e.g. polls favouring rich, ... I currently would say governance would not be doable</li> <li>Erkan: someone would have to <strong>need let go power first</strong> so that the governance can work</li> <li>Erkan: or the governing committee is just a puppet play</li> <li>Erkan: I told user1 some ideas about the governance</li> <li>Erkan: he tried to lure me with it</li> <li>Mercosity: ...yup, decentralized governance will put some peoples noses out of joint, but we've got to do it very soon as before we open up ..</li> <li>Erkan: he didn't give then feedback on what I criticized or what need to be done for it to work ;-)</li> <li>Mercosity: I think everyone except a few realise there is a desperate need ..</li> <li>Erkan: even if there is a need</li> <li>Erkan: you can't force it currently</li> <li>Erkan: it only will work when people like user2 and other whales give away their power</li> <li>...</li> <li>Mercosity: I've been doing some research and <strong>no one seems to have come up with a really workable system</strong> .. people always seem to quote <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO_%28organization%29">DAO</a> (ETH) ..</li> <li>...</li> <li>Erkan: but I see 2 things to do it:</li> <li>Erkan: 1. everyone can decide</li> <li>Erkan: 2. a group gets elected</li> <li>Erkan: --</li> <li>Erkan: 2. will corrupt over time</li> <li>Erkan: 1. the whales just distribute their wealth on more accounts to bypass that</li> <li>Erkan: so, the workable thing is 1.</li> <li>Erkan: but only when the whales prove they e.g. burn wealth or something</li> <li>Erkan: I haven't thought more about this all yet</li> <li>Mercosity: Funny, but everything is relative .. some people see us as whales ..</li> <li>Erkan: you know the !top ? ;-)</li> <li>Mercosity: Depends on which way you look at it .. biased towards crunchers or biased towards whales .. I believe we must respect the investors but the crunchers are the primary movers ..</li> <li>Mercosity: Yeah, it's just perception with new users who don't have a big stake .. in real terms I am a 'guppie' ..</li> <li>Mercosity: not even a 'minnow' ..</li> <li>Erkan: minnow, guppie, whales: wait until the <a href="https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/Gridcoin-tasks/issues/94"><strong>team requirement</strong></a> falls</li> <li>Erkan: that will in my view have not a positive effect</li> <li>Erkan: will bring m<strong>ore distance between rich and not-rich</strong></li> <li>Erkan: governance: in the end the <strong>blockchain only favours balance</strong></li> <li>Erkan: everything we do so far is outside-action</li> <li>Erkan: and if the coin does not radically get changed we won't have true governance any time soon</li> <li>Erkan: important decisions like these: <a href="https://github.com/gridcoin/Gridcoin-Research/issues/106">Low network (balance) stake weight participation solution?</a></li> <li>Erkan: are just talked about</li> <li>Erkan: for 1 year now</li> <li>Erkan: <strong>no action</strong></li> <li>Erkan: outside action: as in when we want to democratize more it goes on by stuff we do outside of the chain</li> <li>Mercosity: That's where the voting mechanism comes in as it's weighted to advantage whales at this moment ..</li> <li>Erkan: yes</li> <li>Erkan: and to think about even changing that we need "approval of the whales"</li> <li>Erkan: and they normally wouldn't cut their own flesh</li> <li>Mercosity: Yup, that is the 'bottleneck' ..</li> <li>Erkan: so, the first practical governance model Gridcoin might dare to attempt</li> <li>Erkan: <strong>will involve a bias towards whales</strong></li> <li>Erkan: otherwise they would not join the initiative</li> <li>Erkan: but then to pull away again the power from them is like the poll-system</li> <li>Mercosity: dats our dilemma .. <strong>we can't do anything without the whales approval</strong> ..</li> <li>Erkan: yeah, so we'd need a radical change in the chain</li> <li>Erkan: and that they also won't allow</li> <li>Mercosity: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_standoff">Mexican standoff</a>?</li> <li>Erkan: so the governance model will be supported when it fits good into marketing plans and so</li> <li>Erkan: Mexican standoff: we are not that</li> <li>Erkan: we are already in the losing position</li> <li>Erkan: because whales HAVE the power</li> <li>Erkan: even if we could get al 99.99999999999999999% of Gridcoin users on the side of a governance model</li> <li>Erkan: we couldn't implement it by the poll which would decline it</li> <li>Mercosity: Maybe we need <strong>mutually assured destruction (MAD) governance model</strong> ..</li> <li>Mercosity: Crunchers stop crunching and close their wallets .. dead ..</li> <li>Erkan: well when all miners stop Gridcoin it will be just a PoS coin so it will survive, so to speak</li> <li>Erkan: people will go away because <strong>no science</strong> in it anymore</li> <li>Erkan: but for like a few weeks it will hold value</li> <li>Erkan: and in that time people can sell their GRCs</li> <li>Erkan: so miners have not really a big influence</li> <li>Erkan: given also:</li> <li>Erkan: that we assume everyone would really wanna a governance thinggy</li> <li>Erkan: we are interested</li> <li>Erkan: not sure who else is really</li> <li>Mercosity: I think maybe <strong>we need to define governance</strong> then so users understand what it is and what it will do for them ..</li> <li>Erkan: the <strong>average user will just care about GRC price</strong></li> <li>Erkan: we hardcore guys care for more</li> <li>Erkan: longterm vs shortterm interests</li> <li>Erkan: I think all what I have said may sound negative</li> <li>Erkan: but I am also supporting governance</li> <li>Erkan: but I just think it would be wasted time without assurance of whales first</li> <li>Erkan: if no whale support: in the end starting all this governance will <strong>back fire</strong></li> <li>Erkan: like people giving up hope on Gridcoin and showing really that's a whale-coin in the end</li> </ul> <p>posted originally <a href="https://github.com/Erkan-Yilmaz/GRC/issues/35">here</a></p> </html>
👍 erkan, darth-cryptic, moisesmcardona, darth-azrael, ubg, kuradikurat, sodom, agentjuno, barton26, theissen, m3rcos1ty, lzyc, jamezz,