![](https://images.ecency.com/DQmVKcowNQfuexLJ8TCnZCbbXUZwpKZqTA68que3q1z8qTB/dollars.jpeg)

## Not Your Keys Not Your Coins

This is our mantra.  You keep your private keys private and you don't transfer to addresses your private keys do not control but is it possible to do this?

Suppose you have #ProofofBrain tokens and you want to get them into some fiat or just the opposite?

## Hive Engine Conversions

### Architecture of Hive Engine
Hive Engine #hiveengine, is a second layer token system.  It uses the Hive blockchain for its tokens but these tokens are not part of Hive.  People need to power up #Hive if they make too many Hive Engine transactions, however.  Hive Engine transactions can be accepted into the Hive blockchain even if they are invalid Hive Engine transactions.  However, that doesn't mean that such an invalid transactions will be accepted by the Hive Engine nodes.  Assets operations are controlled via private keys like in Bitcoin using Hive accounts.  And going from Hive Engine to Hive Engine it looks and feels like a DEX.

### Moving Off Hive Engine

There are pegged tokens which correspond to cryptocurrencies which are not part of Hive Engine.  The most interesting ones for getting back into fiat are:
* SWAP.HIVE
* SWAP.LTC
* SWAP.BCH
* SWAP.BTC
* SWAP.BUSD

The hot wallets (which are on Hive, LTC, BCH, BTC, Binance, and other chains) used for deposits into Hive Engine are controlled by @someguy123.  I suppose the owner of the account also issues the corresponding pegged asset in Hive Engine.  The peg is maintained by being able to withdraw or deposit at anytime for a low fee.  1 BTC is worth 1 SWAP.BTC.  So that's not great.  We cannot really do it without going through a centralized party.

Mike Hearn wrote a process for [cross chain atomic swaps](https://www.makeuseof.com/cross-chain-bridges-and-atomic-swaps-explained/).  Once we sell POB and then buy something that has liquidity in some exchange in our local centralized network, we can transfer to a self-custodial wallet for saving.  The Hive will let us gain voting power via powering up or buy Hive dollars.  The others you can put into a #Thorchain wallet.  With this wallet you can convert to one or the other.  BTC is great for savings, the most adopted and has access to lightning and is legal tender but LTC is better for faster transactions.  BCH is way more flexible in terms of its operations on chain.

If you need to convert to fiat, you can transfer to a centralized exchange which has withdrawal points to bank accounts.  

<hr />

## &quot; The problem with fiat is that it must be out of your custody in order for it to be electronic. &quot;

What we would like is to have a way to cash in to fiat from POB directly in a way that is trustless or from fiat into POB which is trust-less.   The problem with fiat is that it must be out of your custody in order for it to be electronic.  If we could use bitcoin directly for purchases like we did before 2017, that would be cool.

So we see that it is impossible to really do.  You cannot program banker's money in a trustless way.  You cannot program dollar bills.  

<hr />

The best you can do is transact in 
* smaller amounts of currency at a time 
* use decentralized dexes whenever possible 
* smaller amounts of time at the exchange as possible
* avoid exchanging at all.

## Smaller Amounts
It is tedious to send small amounts at a time, and the question is how small?  But has proved worth it me to do this way.  I transferred to Binance and I would have lost $420 HBD had I not sent a smaller amount first.  I wasn't thinking about how they wouldn't accept HBD at Binance at their Hive account **even though it is the same chain as Hive and so they have the keys and it is TRIVIAL to return Hive dollars**.  So [they kept my dollars](/hive-150329/@leprechaun/binance-keeps-my-hbd) and support was unhelpful (calling keeping my money as an "inconvenience").  In all of my years of dealing with exchanges I never got a response like this.  Huobi, and Bittrex has always been cool about crediting accounts for human error.  It hasn't only [happened to me](/hive-150329/@leprechaun/a-call-for-binance-posts) but others as well.  
Many people respond with the words "I've never had a problem" and go on their way, until they do have a problem.

And to those who dismiss my warnings today, I want you to think of a leprechaun who tried to warn you.  Sometimes learning is expensive and some users need to pay more than once for it.

## Using Decentralized Exchanges

Okay on-chain from one asset to another you keep your private keys, but on some chains like Ethereum you will lose your fees even if a transaction fails.  You can get a bad price if you're not careful.  Measure twice and cut once.

### Hive Internal DEx

The Hive internal DEX seemlessly allows you to trade Hive for HBD.  That's a limited set of pairs but it's there.

Proof of Brian.Blog: https://www.proofofbrain.blog/market
Ecency: https://ecency.com/market
Hive-Blog: https://wallet.hive.blog/market

### Hive Engine DEx

Hive Engine DExes:

https://hive-engine.com/
https://tribaldex.com/dieselpools/pools
https://leodex.io/market/LEO

### Thorchain DEx

Thorchain doesn't use crosschain atomic swaps.  Custodians assume risk of their Rune stake.  Should they do something wrong like steal your Bitcoins they will lose their Rune stake.  They must be over collateralized in more than the equivalent value in Rune in order to become custodians of the private keys for the other assets.  There are pools for people to earn a percentage as well.  Watch out though there are minimal fees now.

There is no withdrawal or deposits of pegged asset to the real asset.  The assets are dealt with on their respective chains!

https://github.com/thorchain/asgardex-electron

### Bitcoin Cash

Yes, Bitcoin Cash has a smart chain.  It's true.  You can play in an Ethernet like shitcoins with low fees.
https://verse.bitcoin.com/

Other chains include Ethereum, Gnosis and Polygon...

## Minimize time at the Exchange

If you have something to trade and you must use a centralized exchange, deposit, trade and withdraw.  By default leave your balance as close to zero as you can.  That's what I do.  If an exchange gets hacked, or just disappears with the money, I read about it here on Hive and it is academic to me because unless it happens in the 90 minute window that I use it for, it wont matter.

## Avoiding Exchanges

Trading is not cheap in many exchanges.  Sometimes the difference between the spreads is very high.  On places with big volumes it is around 2%.  So you lose more than a month of interest by buying the crypto in the first place.  So, if I trade at all, I must be prepared to put it away for sometime.  If not, I just spend it directly in whatever form I get it when possible.

I have come to this more and more.
* Avoid trading crypto for fiat or even vice versa.  Although some trading happens.
* I'll accept crypto payments and will offer to pay in crypto.  If we don't spend our crypto then we might as well bury the fiat in the ground.  What good is that?
* I'll accept fiat payments and will offer to pay in fiat.  When they want fiat, pay them in what they want.

You can earn yield at decentralized pools where you keep your keys.  You should research the systematic risk for this though.  There is tribal-dex and thorchain.


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